Saturday, January 05, 2008

Why I'm probably still a Christian . . .

So, my friend Richard is too good for posting comments. Instead, he chose to write an email to get me to clarify things. There are two points I figure I should throw out for everyone:

1. Am I still a Christian?

I was recently reading a theologian I respect a lot who was pointing out the extent to which we all rely on other people to understand ourselves. In a way, it can be said that the only way to really know ourselves is to know other people. There's always this level of uncertainty in each person's self-understanding, and we all rely on other humans to tell us what kind of human we are. That's kind of what I was getting at with the title of this blog . . . essentially people will define you however they see fit, but if you're expecting me to stick a label on myself you might be waiting for a long time.

One thing I read this last year that really messed me up was a quote from Gandhi saying, "Ask the poor, they will tell you who the Christians are." I started thinking about Acts where the title came into being at Antioch. The early Christians didn't label themselves as such, the word was given to them. Probably in a pejorative sense at first, and maybe over time others adopted the term with a different tone of voice. Whatever the case, I basically feel that the word "Christian" is better employed as a compliment than as a self-imposed title. If we are being Christians, then the world will let us know, and we should pay careful attention to the tone used with the term since it carries all the significance.

But, I digress. All my ideals aside, my straight forward answer would be: maybe, by who's definition? If I am allowed to delineate the meaning of the word, then definitely. But, according to the way most people define the word . . . I would definitely distance myself, and possibly respond with a 'no'. Regrettably.

2. In light of my views on the atonement . . . what do I make of the relationship between Jesus and God?

I don't think I could ever say this enough: the first disciples to meet Jesus, met a man, not a god. I think we need to do the same. I think in our context we often work in reverse: we start with the divine Christ and try to reconcile the earthly Jesus to him. But it took his closest friends and followers months if not years to believe in him as a messiah. They initially encountered a rabbi, a miracle-man, a prophet. This is what the knew him as first. With time those labels seemed inadequate, so the began attributing other, loftier titles to him.

It was only 50 years after his death, after transferring the gospel into a polytheistic Greek culture where divine incarnations were commonplace that any Christian community dared attribute divinity to Jesus. It was controversial at that point and took the course of 200 years before it was generally accepted.

My personal stance is that to work backwards from God down to Jesus is to make much too big a claim of understanding God. We begin speaking in grand metaphysical mythic terms, that assume we know the mind of God. To me this is blasphemy; it makes a joke of the God whose ways are forever above our own and whose thoughts are never capable of being brought down to our level. Rather the Christian belief is in a man who reveals the heart of this mysterious God. Not because he IS God, but because God reveals himself through him.

In this way, I can understand how Jesus becomes inseparable from God, but to me that does not make them the same. It makes sense to me that on taking the gospel on to Greek soil, it became beneficial to identify Jesus with God. But, in our modern world, Greek thought has ceased to reign supreme. In our humanistic setting, I find the human Jesus to be the necessary starting point for all theology and spirituality.

4 Comments:

At 7:50 PM , Blogger dallasjg said...

Two quick things:
Great post.
1. You're not actually addressing the issue of atonement per se, as far as I see it, but rather "substitutionary atonement." You might say what you think about the other views.
2. I really like the missional ideology you employ by appealing to the humanistic world as such, though I think you underestimate the Greek thought that permeates our world to date, if nothing else in the left-over "Christian" worldview of West. I also question whether you can "take back" divinity as a belief. However, I couldn't agree more with the idea that we get it entirely wrong by starting with Jesus as God instead of coming to Jesus as the man.
Once again, great post.
-d

 
At 3:43 PM , Blogger Joe said...

having thought on it . . .
1. I rarely hear any view of atonement that doesn't fall into the 'substitutionary' category. I'm going on a generalization of the views I hear espoused by most average preachers, and conventional theology. So . . if you'll clarify which other views of atonement you mean, I'd be glad to respond.

2. I don't mean to say that Greek thought is not still the primary worldview of the West . . . I think it is. But, I think the Greek spirituality based on Greek mythology (though still providing us with a wealth of meaning) has ceased to be a way of thinking that most educated Westerners really believe. We don't believe in gods or a God who reigns from a mountain and occasionally meddles in human affairs. I feel that in a lot of ways the Incarnation of Jesus is modeled on an obsolete Greek mythology that no one in modern context can truly accept. This is a major reason I feel it quite legitimate to 'take back' the divinity so often granted to him. I feel that if one is going to claim him as divine, they will need to pursue that argument through a different line of thinking.

Also, another way to state what I meant by the dethronement of Greek domination is that in the last hundred years the Euro-centric view of the world has been heavily compromised . . . not replaced, but not fully trusted either.

Hope that clarifies.

 
At 8:29 PM , Blogger A Little Thunder said...

vote Joe, 2008 (write-in). i just drank a shiner dunkelweizen. it was sweet-tasting and satisfying.

Jose, i read your parchments and say to myself, "boy, you need to get out more. you need to see the world, understand the intricacies of people, take books on trains and discover santa fe and the birthplace of a close friend's future wife. you need to be more scholarly, like Jose is."

but i decide i'm better suited to the other stuff, writing silly music, peaking in on you periodically to be amazed and then stealthily moving away.

 
At 3:05 PM , Blogger Toby said...

Interesting thoughts. I have a couple of reflections on them.

1) "Christian" is a weird word these days. Nobody seems to know what it means exactly. I remember reading C.S. Lewis' frustrations about this very topic. He remarked that people seemed to use "Christian" as a mere synonym for "good." I prefer to use Christian as synonymous with "Christ-follower," "Believer," or "Disciple." None of those words say whether or not I am particularly adept, they merely describe what I'm shooting for. I understand Ghandi's statement, but I would say he is still in the business of judging whether one is an adept follower of Jesus, not whether one is at all. I know a lot of half-strung-out recovering crack addicts who are devoted to Jesus but wouldn't cut it in Ghandi's book.

2) No offense, but you're simply incorrect on your facts about the progression of the disciples understanding of Jesus' divinity. OK, with this caveat, IF we take the Bible at face value then you clearly are. If we don't take the Bible at face value then there is some wiggle room for discussion.

Posting in your comments section doesn't give me much room to be specific, so I'm going to respond fairly specifically to this post on my blog:

http://idesoftoby.blogspot.com

Thanks for giving me something interesting to mull over!

-tob

 

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